“No More Mr. Nice Guy”
This book by Robert Glover is often recommended by recovering men to each other. Here's one guy's review:
Today I picked up a book that was recommended by forum member workingonit called No More Mr. Nice Guy. It’s about so called “Nice Guy” syndrome.
I had been aware of the basic concept before. You’ll see it pop up on various threads on the net about women going for “jerks” rather than “nice guys,” and said “nice guys” will call women as a whole out for it. But the basic theory that is to be learned is that, sometimes guys will habitually act nice as their modus operandi, but actually the “niceness” is rather manipulative in nature and may otherwise manifest in an unattractive manner, and is related to thought and behavior patterns that aren’t healthy.
The author phrases the fundamental “Ineffective Nice Guy Paradigm” as this:
- IF I can hide my flaws and become what I think others want me to be
- THEN I will be loved, get my needs met, and have a problem free life.
This fundamental paradigm is at the root of most everything the author talks about in the rest of the book.
In reading the first sixty pages of the book, while I didn’t relate to all of it, I did find several examples of behavior patterns that I have exhibited. I was gobsmacked and overwhelmed to realize I’d had such a blind spot!
I think this phenomenon is related to porn addiction for myself, and quite possibly for many others. One of the fundamental attributes of the “Nice Guy Syndrome” the author lists is a tendency to try to hide their own needs and take care of them without the help of anyone else. If that’s the prescription your subconscious has made, it’s easy to see how the synthetic, push-button fix of PMO can be reinforced as a behavior.
...Glover recommends what he calls "healthy" masturbation, which basically means masturbating while not only not looking at porn- but not even engaging in fantasy. In other words, not leaving the reality of the situation (enjoying your sexuality by yourself) and not using fantasy to distract yourself. Observe how you feel and think, and if you notice feelings of fear and shame don't run from them or distract yourself with fantasy just sit with them, let them pass. I haven't tried it yet. (I'm at day 19 of a reboot, and it doesn't seem like time just yet.)
Said another forum member:
I've read it twice so far and I am reading it yet again. I was so floored the first time reading it, as I saw myself on practically every page. If you're anything like me I am sure that you will connect with the book in more than one way. If you are unsure if you can connect or not, just get a copy anyway. It wouldn't hurt.
Another guy's comments after another guy asked:
"How is it the high road to not pursue? Sex-wise?"
It's a tough call because on the one hand, I'm all for an even and healthy exchange with someone on the same page. On the other hand, I could see it as a possible distraction if she wants something more.
When I think of a woman that I want to have sex with, I want to be totally into her, not just kind of or just for the night. Sometimes I feel like I want to embrace the entire person, which means that I need to be into them. Also, and I'm not sure what this means, but while dating, I notice that there are women that I am a lot more into than others. These are the women that I am attracted and want to have sex with. There are women that I am going out with that I think "Id like to have sex, but that's about it really".
I don't want to be in a situation where I am using somebody. I did that not too long ago with a girl I met online and it seemed to compromise my inner game when I went on a date with someone that I was actually interested in the next day. (It could have been that the place that she selected to have coffee overlooked the apartment that I was at the night before with that girl.)
One important lesson from porno recovery is that intentions and state of mind do matter surrounding orgasm. With this girl, I am just not completely sure what my intentions or state of mind is surrounding it, but I know for sure that I don't want something long-term with her.
I also know that I have these all or nothing tendencies where on the one hand Ill sleep with someone inappropriate, then on the other hand, get very hung up on a long term potential with someone inappropriate for different reasons, but justify sex as something that is all right, all the while destroying my self-esteem as I lose myself in a relationship.
Both of these extreme tendencies I want to do away with. That might or might not involve healthy sex with someone. I would like to have healthy sex with a woman and it not be a big deal, but there are some issues that would get in the way of that right now.
In fact, even trying to date multiple women is a pretty big step for me right now in this direction because it confronts one-itus and it allows me to see first hand the effects of bad intentions and bad relationships. I have always been the type to attract another latcher and we both latch on for the plunge into the ground. I'm trying hard to break this pattern and learn to date in a healthy way.
Dr Robert Glover suggests not having sex for a couple of months or a month or something. This will allow you to set boundaries and "next" the women if they are not right. He also mentions that there is a difference between healthy sex and bad sex.
Bad sex keeps us in our self-defeating patterns and is not worth it in the long run. "Nice guys" settle with bad sex all the time because they think that that is all they can get. (Not abundance thinking!) The whole process involves a lot of clarity, something that I am gaining by being a part of the dating process.
Another forum member:
F**k me if that book hasn't got me to a T. It rings true in virtually every area. There's much in there that looking back I had changed for the better, but lapsed into old bad habits possibly because I wasn't aware of the root causes of things so much. Things like smothering and
fixing other people has me right down. It also gives me some hope because I can look back to the changes I made a few years back and do remember a tremendous positive impact on my relationship with my then girlfriend. The changes just didn't stick.
Things like doing things for myself is something I've tried to work on in the past, but I find it very hard to do without feeling guilty. Letting people push my boundaries is a big area for me and there have been times in the past where I've felt real shame about how I've let someone walk all over me whether a dickhead in a bar or one of my mates taking the piss. It may be a chicken/ egg situation - Do you become more like this because you are anxious/ depressed or do you become anxious/depressed because you act like this? Either way I feel there are many issues outlined here that I need to address if I'm to truly improve as a person.
Two more guys
First guy: No More Mr Nice Guy absolutely agrees with what this sites teaches, that you should refrain from porn and fantasizing but should include healthy masturbation (masturbation with just focusing on sensations and without orgasm as goal). This helps your brain to rewire to what sex actually is about: the present moment and sensations.
Second guy: I have childhood abandonment issues which I have been dealing with these past months. I also found a book that had a very important impact on my life, No More Mr. Nice Guy by Robert Glover. If you have problems with expressing your needs and desires and feel the need to please people and guess what they might want, I recommend reading the free preview of the book: http://www.amazon.com/No-More-Mr-Nice-Guy-ebook/dp/B004C438CW/ If you're not the target audience, you've only lost a little time it takes to read the preview (and can maybe recommend it to someone you recognize from it). If you belong to the target audience, this might be one of the most important books in your life. I know it was for me. In a nutshell: taking care of other people's needs with the hope they'll take care of yours doesn't work and will only fill you with a feeling of powerlessness and resentment.
Another guy's comments:
I've read the book. Yes, I'm a Nice Guy.
The book goes into depth about why you're a Nice Guy and then it gives exercises to Break Free of the Nice Guy Syndrome. Basically, all these problems that Nice Guys have (giving to get, seeking validation, being weak, victimizing themselves etc), the book will break those behaviors one at a time - provided you actually do those exercises.
Once you've read the book, you'll be surprised about how many things you do to seek approval and avoid rejection or disapproval. Little things like laughing at someone's joke (when it's obviously not funny to you), smiling to appear "friendly" all the time, never being angry etc.
About the PUA; Nice Guys seek validation from women, period. To a nice guy, sex is the ultimate validation. You can get, but can't keep a woman while you're seeking validation from them. She loses interest and gets bored. I'm sure you already know this.
The book makes you aware of all the little things you do to get validation from people. Once you're aware, it tells you to stop doing that thing for a week and see what happens. You'll feel the difference.
For example, I laugh at everything, not because I find it funny (that's what I've been telling myself all these years), but for validation. I stopped laughing or telling jokes completely. I realized a few things:
I was able to have good conversations with people
I didn't feel "fake"
My face stopped hurting from all the smiling and laughing
The people I kept laughing with were people who I wanted validation from the most (my girlfriend and my dad)
There's a difference between laughing because it's damn funny, and laughing because you want someone to like you
It's a great book. If you do get it, just remember that you're not going to change over night. This will take months and the slower you go the bette
Related website with active forum: http://nomoremrniceguy.com/
Another forum member shared these tips:
I highly recomend these two blogs:
They give crystal clear analysis of many important aspects of being a man, being a man today and of gender interactions.
In a more hands on way you can work at it by lifting weights. Over time your testosterone levels goes up a lot and this equals more masculine energy. Doing martial arts is also great for working on your masculinity. Especially for men in our culture which in my opinion has been trained from birth to be weak, cowards and have low pain tolerance. Many good martial arts to choose from. Krav Maga is superb on all levels, thai boxing, MMA and many others are good as well. Internal martial arts such as tai chi and BAGUA are great to and in many ways work deeper. They also teach you more about the interplay between male and female energies in yourself and how to use both to fingth an opononent. THere are important lessens in that.
I also highly recomend standing meditation. IMO it builds what I call the yin aspect of teh alpha male. By that I mean the confident, relaxed, stoic aspect as oposed to the yang aspect which is more about the assertive, agressive testosterone related aspect. As long as you keep at it over time ten minutes is enough to get the basic benefits for this purpose.